08/12/17 19:11:48 F0jWbyVeO
Hi Sydney and y'all!
The other day, for no reason at all, I looked back in the archives of this thread, and I
noticed that you're majoring in legal studies. A happy coincidence -- I'm studying law and
jurisprudence, too (I've only just started it recently, though).
To me, you're senpai in legal studies, so I'd like to ask you a question. I'm interested,
as a kagikko, in a long-disputed topic about criminal law in Kanon -- Ayu Tsukimiya's
taiyaki "theft". Can I ask how she would be dealt in your country's jurisdiction?
In Japan -- contrary to a first glance -- the most influential opinion is that Ayu *isn't*
punishable in the Japanese criminal system, because Article 235 of Penal Code stipulates:
"Article 235 (Theft): A person who steals the property of another commits the crime of theft[.]"
Ayu bought taiyakis from a vendor stall, or more precisely, she made an offer to purchase
the taiyakis and then the vendor accepted her offer. In Japan, it's collectively thought
that a sales contract like this *immediately* transfers the ownership of the subject
matter of the sale (= the taiyakis) from the buyer to the seller.
Ayu and the vendor made the contract, and Ayu took the taiyakis away after that -- at that
time, the ownership of the taiyakis has been transferred to Ayu. Therefore, Ayu's act
doesn't satisfy a kouseiyouken (Ger. Tatbestand; "constituent element") of the crime of
theft, i.e. "steals the property of another", so she's not punishable. (Still, Ayu failed
to perform the obligation of the contract, i.e., didn't pay the money, and civil dispute
resolution procedures in the court will help the vendor collect the bill.)
I, personally, think that Ayu *should* be liable to criminal prosecution, so I'm
interested in how she would be dealt under criminal systems of foreign counties.
Oh, and I hope you'll enjoy your trip to Japan. Cheers!
670:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/17 21:31:46 CQmlIfg70
つーか1ヶ月も日本にいるのか
前に書かれた予定コースを回っても時間が余りそうな気がするが
671:Sydney ◆hx94SGL2cM
08/12/17 21:50:41 Zur0XXPB0
>>670
実はまだ出発してないよ。
正確にいえば３週間強ってとこか。
>>669
Hello 669-san.
The question you pose is an interesting one, and although I am not a criminal lawyer,
I will try to answer it to the best of my ability.
In my home jurisdiction of New South Wales, there is no legislation covering simple
theft (called by the old English name of 'larceny'), so the principles are determined at
common law. Broadly speaking, physical element of the offence is defined as 'taking a
thing that can be taken from the owner's possession without the consent of the owner',
while the mens rea requires the accused to 'intend to deprive the possessor of the thing,
act fraudulently and not advance a claim of right made in good faith'.
Clearly, in the present case, Taiyaki is capable of being taken, and was in fact removed
from its owner's possession. Furthermore, it is difficult to argue that Ayu did not intend
to deprive the owner of the thing (that is, the Taiyaki) or act fraudulently, and nor does
she have a claim of right made in good faith.
However, rule 1 of section 23 of the Sale of Goods Act 1923 (NSW) provides that:
"Where there is an unconditional contract for the sale of specific goods in a deliverable
state, the property in the goods passes to the buyer when the contract is made, and it
is immaterial whether the time of payment or the time of delivery, or both, be postponed."
672:Sydney ◆hx94SGL2cM
08/12/17 21:51:29 Zur0XXPB0
As you have pointed out, this would cause the ownership in the Taiyaki to move from
the vendor to Ayu at the moment when the contract was formed - that is, when Ayu
made the offer to purchase the Taiyaki, and the vendor accepted by acknowledging her
order. Accordingly, she would not be 'taking a thing from the owner's possession', as the
owner at the point she receives them would be herself. Further, it is arguable that she
took the Taiyaki with the *consent* of the vendor (who did, after all, hand them to her
himself). Accordingly, I do not think the offence of larceny is made out, and the vendor
would be left to sue under his contractual remedies.
As a better alternative, however, I would suggest that Ayu be charged with 'obtaining
property by false pretences' under section 179 of the Crimes Act 1900 (NSW), which
covers situations where a person 'obtains, by a willfully false promise... any property
with intent to defraud'. In the present case, Ayu has obtained the property in the Taiyaki
by conveying (implictly or explicitly) that she was going to pay for them, when in fact,
she was not. Accordingly, she has made a false promise with the intent to defraud the
vendor (of the Taiyaki), and would be guilty of this offence.
There are no doubt further arguments that can be made on both sides, but I hope that
addresses the main points of the question.
Cheers.
673:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/17 22:13:58 OejQFCsK0
言葉の意味はよくわからんがとにかくすごい会話が成立していることは分かった
674:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/17 23:08:21 fagxLw1/0
読めぬ英単語～ 追いかけて追いかけて～
675:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/17 23:28:15 QeLT0chX0
>>671-672
Cheers. まで読んだ。
676:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/18 00:03:54 eK6NaxmfO
全文じゃねえかよw
677:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/18 00:44:53 AcrT87k00
＞竜騎士07さんや都乃河勇人さんといったコロンブス級のライターさんたちとチームを組んで書いてます。
＞いまだ開発中のタイトルですが、ズバリ保証しましょう。
＞このゲーム、シナリオがもう神でも宿ったんじゃないかってくらいにメチャクチャ面白・・・・・・
＞これを最後まで書いてしまったら、物書きとしてさらに上の階層に達してしまいそうな気がするので
＞（ナルシーなラスボスがしばしば達してる段階です）、ここまでにしておきたいと思います。
678:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/18 01:31:04 S9dol/Xr0
更に円高になってるわけだが、旅費が辛いことになりそうだな。
679:Stanford ◆wings.7DqM
08/12/18 14:15:13 1ZE6siur0
>>678
円の上昇と同時にAmazon.co.jpからの発送知らせがとどいた；；
680:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/18 17:47:44 o28LUVJP0
>>679
m9（＾Д＾）プギャー
681:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/20 17:33:42 eRWmbCQU0
あゆあゆの「鯛焼問題」に関する法的考察
URLﾘﾝｸ(d.hatena.ne.jp)
682:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/22 18:58:31 8rVDQqFpO
被告人月宮あゆは無罪！～鯛焼き問題の刑法的考察
URLﾘﾝｸ(d.hatena.ne.jp)
683:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/22 21:51:30 d3NfqqFD0
それだいぶ前に俺も読んだけど
「売主は同時履行の抗弁を放棄した。よって犯罪不成立」
っていう論理はいかにもすわりが悪いと思う
財産的利害を信義誠実・正義衡平に従って当事者間に分担させようとする民法と
刑罰の予告によって国民に法益侵害行為をやめさせようとする刑法は分けて考えるべき
「代金の支払が済んでいない以上、刑法上保護に値する所有権の実質は
なお売主に存すると言える。よって本件鯛焼は他人の物に当たる」みたいな感じで
売主の誤信により自己の占有に帰した他人物を不法領得→占離横領
（釣り銭詐欺とパラレル）
にするのが一番いいと思うけどなー
684:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/24 09:17:41 c3g69hR60
仙台市と近郊を舞台にしたテレビアニメ「かんなぎ」が東北放送など全国各局で放映され、
モデルとなった場所を訪ねるファンが増えている。
仙台市内のアニメ店で関連品の売り上げが伸び、ご当地アニメを生かした地域活性化の期待も膨らんでいる。
七ケ浜町の鼻節神社は、アニメに登場する神社のモデルでないかとインターネットで話題になり、
訪れるファンが多い。町観光協会によると、参拝客はこれまでの５倍以上に増えた。
登米市のファンの男性（４５）は「アニメそのままの風景で感動した」と話す。
アニメでは特定の地名は出ないが、神社のほかにも、青葉区のＪＲ仙台駅前やアーケード街、
宮城野区のＪＲ陸前高砂駅の周辺を思わせる風景が続々登場する。
青葉区のアニメ店「アニメイト仙台店」は、かんなぎの原作本やＤＶＤが全国の同規模店の２倍以上売れ、
専用コーナーを２カ所設けて対応している。高柳伸一店長は「仙台発のアニメとあって、地元ファンの関心は高い」と言う。
かんなぎの原作者は県出身の漫画家武梨えりさん。産土神（うぶすながみ）の化身で萌（も）え系美少女の
「ナギ」が活躍するファンタジーで、１０月にアニメ化された。
原作の出版元の一迅社（東京）は「背景に説得力を持たせようと、作者を交えて仙台市周辺でロケハンを重ねた。
ご当地アニメとして楽しんでくれるのはありがたい」と話す。
ファンの間では「聖地巡礼」と称し、作品の舞台を訪ねるのがはやっており「オタクツーリズム」という言葉も生まれ、
新しい観光を生み出す原動力になっている。
２００７年に放映されたアニメ「らき☆すた」の舞台となった埼玉県鷲宮町は今もファンが国内外から訪れる。
主人公が住んでいる設定の鷲宮神社のことしの初詣での人出は３０万人で前年より１７万人増えた。
鷲宮町商工会は出版社と連携した商品開発やイベントの開催に積極的。
「ガラガラの商店街に活気が戻った。経済効果は億単位だろう」と見る。
七ケ浜町も「かんなぎ効果をどう生かせるか検討したい」とご当地アニメによる地域おこしに前向きだ。
一迅社も「地元から話があれば一緒に盛り上げたい」と話している。
URLﾘﾝｸ(www.kahoku.co.jp)
685:669
08/12/24 19:33:58 q7TCaMkdO
すげえ！あんな英語でも通じるんだな。
つかシドたんって実務家先生だったのか。てっきり大学生かロー生と思ってた…
Sydney-sensei, I'm very happy to receive your answer. Japanese students generally have
very few opportunities to hear from real jurists at work (as opposed to scholars), so
reading your professional comments is an exciting experience.
The Japanese criminal code is originally imported from Germany and the civil code from
France, and I've heard that laws in continental Europe (and so Japan) are quite different
from those of the UK and Commonwealth countries. Thus, I imagined that the discussion on
the ownership in the Taiyaki would conclude differently, but I was surprised that you
pointed out exactly the same thing as would be discussed also in Japan -- the time of
transfer of the ownership. This is a new discovery for me.
Regarding the crime of "obtaining property by false pretences", there is a similar
provision in the Japanese Penal Code (brackets mine):
"Article 246 (Fraud): A person who defrauds another of property [lit., "A person who
deceives another into delivering property"] shall be punished[.]"
However, even with this provision, it is thought in Japan that Ayu is *not* punishable. As
you point out, Ayu took the Taiyaki with the consent of the vendor and she had no intention
to deceive the vendor when he handed over the Taiyaki because she (mistakenly) believed
that she had her wallet. She ran away from the vendor stand without paying nor returning
the Taiyaki (and it is clearly against morality), but running away from the seller
doesn't fall under "deceives another into delivering property", there's no choice but to
judge that she didn't commit any crime in Japan's jurisdiction -- "Nulla poena sine lege".
686:669
08/12/24 19:36:26 q7TCaMkdO
I personally think such a result is one on the loopholes in Japanese criminal laws, so
I feel a little relieved to hear that Ayu would be liable to punishment in your home
jurisdiction. Thank you again for your reply.
Cheers!
687:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/24 20:05:50 CwVhUaSv0
URLﾘﾝｸ(www.akabeesoft2.com)
-コミケグッズ「おっぱいがいっぱいセット」通販をご利用のお客様各位-
平素は弊社作品をご愛顧いただき誠にありがとうございます。
この度、ファンクラブ会員様向けのグッズセット通販にて、
別配送となっておりました「おっぱいがいっぱいセット」を
発送させていただいております。
上記の折、弊社の配送業者への指定ミスにより、
梱包外面に「おっぱいがいっぱいセット」というグッズ商品名が、
記載されてしまっておりました。
弊社通販をご利用いただいたお客様には多大なご迷惑、
ならびに不快な思いをさせてしまうこととなり、
一企業として管理意識の低さを大変恥ずかしく思っております。
お客様方々には、弊社一同心よりお詫び申し上げます。
以降二度とこのような失態がなきよう、
自らを戒め、
管理の徹底を図り、
またより一層皆様方に喜んで頂ける社内環境を作り上げていく所存です。
ご容赦賜りますよう、何卒宜しくお願い申し上げます。
688:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/28 00:57:41 kdwX1JTn0
美少女ゲームアワード２００８結果発表
URLﾘﾝｸ(www.bishojyogameaward.org)
689:名無しさんだよもん
08/12/30 13:40:45 RtBKxBr70
だーまえ、シナリオライター引退取り消し
URLﾘﾝｸ(www.i-love-key.net)