08/07/09 17:16:08 yMutf0zs
>>274
それが前に買った同じ16倍の誘電OEMのTDKでは全然振動しないんですよ
なんか明らかに別物
このまま使うとドライブ壊しそうなので、交換してもらってきます
276:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/09 18:11:16 YAOY1DuS
スピンドルはどうやって保管してる？
積み上げたままじゃ下の方に負担かかりそうだ
277:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/10 10:13:08 pa7vo5E9
スピンドルケースを積み重ねてるってことかい？
何十段も重ねなければ割れたりすることも無いでしょ。
278:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/10 16:35:12 u+Ahw9H6
>>277
いや、スピンドル状態で保管しておくと
積み重なってる下の方のDVD-Rは大丈夫かってこと
279:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/10 17:08:04 pa7vo5E9
>>278
そっちか。
両リブあった頃ならディスク重ねても平気だったろうけど、今のは片リブだからね。
ラベル貼ったりしなけりゃ重ねてもおｋなんじゃないかな。
280:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/10 20:26:55 7j0trtPv
スピンドル状態で販売されているわけだから
ダメってことは無いんじゃないかな
281:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/10 20:43:44 Dw5KIRnX
あのぐらいの重さなら大丈夫じゃね
282:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/10 21:24:53 IAaV0+aT
日本ビクター株式会社は26日、7月1日付けで記録メディア事業を会社分割し、ビクターアドバンストメディア株式会社を新設。
その後、10月1日に新会社株式の65%を太陽誘電株式会社に譲渡すると発表した。
これによりビクターアドバンストメディアは太陽誘電の傘下に入ることになる。
ビクターは現在、新中期計画のもと、民生、エンタテインメント、プロシステムを基幹3事業と定め、その他事業について抜本的な見直しを実施。
事業構造と経営体質の改革に取り組んでおり、記録メディア事業については、事業譲渡や分社化を視野に入れた抜本的な改革を検討していたという。
その結果、株式の一部を太陽誘電へ譲渡することが、「事業継続に最適であり、当社がこれまで培ってきたブランド力・技術・ノウハウの最大限の活用、既存顧客への供給責任の継承
なおかつ記録メディア事業に従事する当社従業員の雇用確保にもつながると判断し、決議した」という。
太陽誘電側も、自身の記録メディア技術や生産ノウハウを、ビクターのブランド力や技術、ノウハウと融合させることで、「更なる事業基盤の強化を図る」としている。
新会社はビクター・JVCブランドのテープや光メディアの開発、製造、販売を継続する予定。
譲渡額は9月末の事業評価額をベースに決定し、現金による決済を予定している。
なお、2008年3月期のビクター、メディア事業の経営状況は、売上高が169億2,200万円、売上総利益が24億9,500万円、営業利益は23億2,500万円の赤字、経営利益も27億300万円のマイナスとなっている。
283:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/10 21:26:48 IAaV0+aT
日本ビクター株式会社は26日、7月1日付けで記録メディア事業を会社分割し、ビクターアドバンストメディア株式会社を新設。
その後、10月1日に新会社株式の65%を太陽誘電株式会社に譲渡すると発表した。
これによりビクターアドバンストメディアは太陽誘電の傘下に入ることになる。
ビクターは現在、新中期計画のもと、民生、エンタテインメント、プロシステムを基幹3事業と定め、その他事業について抜本的な見直しを実施。
事業構造と経営体質の改革に取り組んでおり、記録メディア事業については、事業譲渡や分社化を視野に入れた抜本的な改革を検討していたという。
その結果、株式の一部を太陽誘電へ譲渡することが、「事業継続に最適であり、当社がこれまで培ってきたブランド力・技術・ノウハウの最大限の活用、既存顧客への供給責任の継承
なおかつ記録メディア事業に従事する当社従業員の雇用確保にもつながると判断し、決議した」という。
太陽誘電側も、自身の記録メディア技術や生産ノウハウを、ビクターのブランド力や技術、ノウハウと融合させることで、「更なる事業基盤の強化を図る」としている。
新会社はビクター・JVCブランドのテープや光メディアの開発、製造、販売を継続する予定。
譲渡額は9月末の事業評価額をベースに決定し、現金による決済を予定している。
なお、2008年3月期のビクター、メディア事業の経営状況は、売上高が169億2,200万円、売上総利益が24億9,500万円、営業利益は23億2,500万円の赤字、経営利益も27億300万円のマイナスとなっている。
284:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/10 21:28:24 IAaV0+aT
日本ビクター株式会社は26日、7月1日付けで記録メディア事業を会社分割し、ビクターアドバンストメディア株式会社を新設。
その後、10月1日に新会社株式の65%を太陽誘電株式会社に譲渡すると発表した。
これによりビクターアドバンストメディアは太陽誘電の傘下に入ることになる。
ビクターは現在、新中期計画のもと、民生、エンタテインメント、プロシステムを基幹3事業と定め、その他事業について抜本的な見直しを実施。
事業構造と経営体質の改革に取り組んでおり、記録メディア事業については、事業譲渡や分社化を視野に入れた抜本的な改革を検討していたという。
その結果、株式の一部を太陽誘電へ譲渡することが、「事業継続に最適であり、当社がこれまで培ってきたブランド力・技術・ノウハウの最大限の活用、既存顧客への供給責任の継承
なおかつ記録メディア事業に従事する当社従業員の雇用確保にもつながると判断し、決議した」という。
太陽誘電側も、自身の記録メディア技術や生産ノウハウを、ビクターのブランド力や技術、ノウハウと融合させることで、「更なる事業基盤の強化を図る」としている。
新会社はビクター・JVCブランドのテープや光メディアの開発、製造、販売を継続する予定。
譲渡額は9月末の事業評価額をベースに決定し、現金による決済を予定している。
なお、2008年3月期のビクター、メディア事業の経営状況は、売上高が169億2,200万円、売上総利益が24億9,500万円、営業利益は23億2,500万円の赤字、経営利益も27億300万円のマイナスとなっている。
285:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/10 21:32:59 Co8/gTAm
何度もはるなよｗ
ビクターも日本製の誘電メディアになるなら大歓迎ｗ
286:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/11 00:16:08 A7Vj1djc
荒らしてるｷﾁｶﾞｲだからスルー汁
287:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/11 19:55:15 zT2/stKM
>>278
下手に不織布なんかに入れて負荷かかる状態で保存するよりよっぽどマシってどっかで見た気がする。
ルーズリーフみたいなファイル式の不織布にファイリングして斜めった状態で数年保管して
見事に反り返ったR持ってる俺が言うから間違いないｗ
288:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/11 20:14:35 e6IlldL7
余程カビだらけの部屋なんだろうな
289:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/11 20:36:17 kHGh3AnT
今まで、いろんなメディア使って、エラーとか出る度にメディア変えて、
最後の砦として誘電に変えたんだが、誘電でも焼けなくなった人いる？
290:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/11 22:29:31 OPcTBOLU
>>288
湿気よりも、斜めに負荷がかかったのがいけないんじゃない？の
291:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/12 10:25:55 TeCX+8wG
5年程斜めで置いてるけど綺麗なもんだ
292:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/12 16:09:17 DSAVtLYJ
また書き込みでエラー頻出しだした。
3枚連続パーだ。
ドライブと相性悪いのか？
以前、エラー出まくったあと
50枚スピンドル買い直したら一枚失敗しただけで順調に焼けてたのに…。
293:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 00:24:18 MoFIGWM8
>>292
おまいの焼きドライブ環境は大丈夫なのか？
電源貧弱とかレーザー割れかけ（レーザーダイオードは熱を持つので、寿命がある）とか。
294:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 08:00:34 50MNMyP3
品質は落ちる所まで落ちてきたがエラーは出た事無いけどな
295:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 08:13:26 VSs6vJa1
ドライブ不良に1票
296:292
08/07/13 10:36:17 pEWu6E0O
無論真っ先に迷う事無くドライブ(東芝レコーダー)を疑ったんだが
失敗後、別の太陽誘電製スピンドルの
違う刻印No.のDVD-R使うと成功したんだよなぁ。
立て続けに失敗したのは同一のNo.が刻印。
どれも容量で先頭から16%の位置でエラーが出てる。
スピンドル内のタップリ残ってるディスク、全部同一の刻印だ…。
で、パイオニア製ドライブで使ってみたら成功した。
ドライブかよ！
と言い切れない何かひっかかるものがある…。
ドライブだけが原因のエラーなら
もっとランダムにミスしてもいいんじゃなかろうか？
297:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 11:24:27 MoFIGWM8
東芝レコーダー ・・・・・
（芝レコで語らない方がいいと思うぞ、ググってみ）
298:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 11:49:49 pEWu6E0O
ネット上の悪評はもともと承知してる。
ドライブも信用してないから対照実験できるようにメディア用意してるのねん。エラー頻度とその集中具合、出現パターンからして100%ドライブに起因するとも考えにくいんだよな…。
どちらも完璧は無いだろうから安全な組み合わせ見つけて回避するしかないんだが。
基本的には太陽誘電以外は使いたくない。
299:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 12:02:37 pEWu6E0O
う、また失敗の続いたスピンドルに戻ったらやはり失敗した。
AとB、2種類のスピンドルを用意。ともに太陽誘電製。
Aで連続3枚失敗→Bで一発成功→Aでまた失敗。
この状況だとAのディスクに原因を求めても仕方ないと思われる。
Aとパイオニアドライブ→成功。
こんな感じ。
300:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 12:18:32 WjSzo4lA
>>292
最近の誘電クォリティーは地雷源
50枚スピンドル買うと10％は焼き損じる覚悟が必要
301:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 12:30:30 pEWu6E0O
大雑把に考えて
東芝レコーダーの焼きパワー不足が
太陽誘電ディスクの些細な製造ムラを乗り越えることができない、って感じなのかな。
短期的コストではディスクとっ変えて焼き直して、
長期的にはデッキを買い替えろというとこか…。
お金かかるね。
302:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 12:44:02 egYhJbl4
波平なら、俺の隣で寝ているが？
303:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 12:57:54 lUYFvvTo
誘電で70枚近く焼いてるけど一度も失敗したことない
304:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 13:05:12 KLVERum5
>>302
マスオ乙
305:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 19:51:42 5ejsW+kR
ロットによる当たり外れはありそう。
306:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/13 19:57:03 50MNMyP3
東芝（笑
307:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/14 00:10:21 x7T/0yjg
新たにスピンドルCを用意して焼き。成功。
A三回連続失敗→B一発成功→A失敗→B成功→C三回連続成功
この状況でAを疑うのは自然だよな。
念のため使うの止めよう。
同一刻印、まだ20枚くらい残ってるぞ。
308:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/14 00:19:52 7JunY4c8
ダメロットはまとめて誘電に送ってやれ
今更代替品なんか要らんと思うかもしれないが、良品交換という目的だけじゃなく
不具合のある製品サンプルがメーカーに届くことの方が重要
まあ誘電ももうDVD-Rにはチカラ入れてないんで、送られたサンプルから不良原因の
解析なんてしないだろうけど
309:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/14 12:16:41 sNjP/nYn
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
310:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/14 12:18:16 sNjP/nYn
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
311:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/14 12:18:48 sNjP/nYn
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
312:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/14 12:20:02 sNjP/nYn
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
313:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/14 12:21:20 sNjP/nYn
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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314:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/14 14:54:32 HQ4UUjjT
>>307
とりあえず販売元に電話して送り付けれｗ
315:名無しさん◎書き込み中
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2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
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316:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/15 16:56:16 O/W4Jw8e
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317:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/15 16:57:35 DzanbP7G
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318:名無しさん◎書き込み中
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319:名無しさん◎書き込み中
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320:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/15 16:59:53 O/W4Jw8e
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321:名無しさん◎書き込み中
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322:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/15 17:03:26 DzanbP7G
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
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323:名無しさん◎書き込み中
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324:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/15 17:05:35 DzanbP7G
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325:名無しさん◎書き込み中
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326:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/15 17:09:07 DzanbP7G
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
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327:名無しさん◎書き込み中
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328:名無しさん◎書き込み中
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2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
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329:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/15 23:52:43 8DuiUa3W
ｷﾓｲ
330:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/16 10:56:22 h+B+ryof
TYG02のセラコとプリンタブルってプリンタブルのほうが焼き品質いいのかな？
いつもセラコ買ってたんだけど、低速で焼いても品質95とか限界だったけど
試しにプリンタブル買ったら品質98！ただ単にアタリひいただけ？
331:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/16 13:23:40 tQpMV5md
何枚も焼いてそれで安定してるなら当たりなんじゃないの
あんな品質の数値なんて特に意味無いけど
332:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/16 15:42:04 0ja/KlX5
俺は表面に水性ペンでこれは何って書くからプリンタぶるにしているが、
品質に差が出るもんなのかね？
333:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/16 17:41:40 sdjrr1Cr
湿気ヲすいやすい
334:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/16 23:42:04 1z5fDB2X
長期保存するならセラコでそ
335:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/17 09:05:52 3l58Ws3g
DVD-Rにセラミックコートする意味ってないじゃん
336:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/17 13:51:31 HD7yXrbR
なんでやねん
337:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/17 14:48:42 YhOlWjMk
意味無いね
結局どれ選んでもｶﾜﾝﾈ
338:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/17 16:20:07 s4Mx+fZW
不要なデータの整理方法
DVDに焼く
HDDから消す
DVDを割る
これでさっぱり諦められるよ、お勧め!
339:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/17 17:32:04 goyAk7tb
最初と最後いらなくね？ｗ
340:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 12:17:20 DEgEEN5k
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
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9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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341:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 12:18:38 DEgEEN5k
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
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：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
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2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
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9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
342:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 12:19:11 DEgEEN5k
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
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343:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 12:24:57 DEgEEN5k
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
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：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
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2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
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344:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 12:29:28 DEgEEN5k
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
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：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
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2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
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9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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345:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 12:33:22 DEgEEN5k
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
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：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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346:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 12:34:49 DEgEEN5k
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
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9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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347:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 12:36:05 DEgEEN5k
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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348:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 13:37:22 UDfAwtpD
>>338-339ﾜﾛﾀｗ
349:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 15:06:03 FuE+ejPU
BDで誘電選ぶ馬鹿はいないだろうし記録メディアから撤退するのも遠くないかな。
350:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 18:30:07 VlePatXc
>>338-339
スタパってけっこうまじめなんだな…
URLﾘﾝｸ(bb.watch.impress.co.jp)
351:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/18 21:07:23 45htN5HJ
でもさ、スタパは自腹でやってたときはいいけど
商品提供企業から金もらって記事を書き始めてから
つまらなくなったと思うんだよねー
352:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/20 07:52:39 4GMnGEDq
スタパはフリーオ使ってる？
353:働かざるもの＠ねこまんま ◆lIXNRkFWlY
08/07/20 14:20:17 7MPsMlkR
>>350
オレは後生大事にファイル残しておく派
仕事のファイルは完璧に残しておく。以前いた会社のまでｗ
なんか雛形とか、いつか使いそうな気がして。
354:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/22 19:00:37 2z0D3aQ0
有機色素BD見る限り、誘電神話は終わったと思う
355:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/22 19:01:07 eVYwYaEE
同感。
356:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 12:01:48 y0JadYTs
最近傷だらけの多いけど なんか手抜いてる？
50枚中10枚は傷あってうまく焼けないぞ。
357:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 12:39:13 w1XpQy1x
太陽誘電 DR-47WPY50BN [16倍速データ用4.7GB/プリンタブル白/50枚バルクケース]
￥1,985 (税込)
太陽誘電 DVD-R47WPYSBA [8倍速データ用DVD-R 4.7GB/プリンタブル/バルク50枚入]
￥1,999 (税込)
8倍速の方が高いけど何でなの？
あとどちらがおすすめですか？
358:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 13:38:39 k69qg1b/
えらく安いな
8倍の方が高いのは需要
359:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 20:11:36 y/GETPfo
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
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360:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 20:14:54 y/GETPfo
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
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：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
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361:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 20:15:36 y/GETPfo
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
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：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
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2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
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9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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362:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 20:16:50 y/GETPfo
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
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：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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363:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 20:18:31 y/GETPfo
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
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：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
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2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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364:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 20:22:41 xAa6bMMw
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
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：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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365:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 20:23:22 xAa6bMMw
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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366:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 20:24:12 xAa6bMMw
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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367:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 20:39:16 xdErrSzp
>>357
今じゃどっちも大差ないほどの微妙な品質だから、好きな方買っとけ。
368:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 21:32:56 HxzWIH9V
相性いいドライブでオススメなのある？
オプティの7200S買おうと思ってたけど
スレ読む限りパイオニアのが相性いいっぽいね。
369:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 22:46:11 dBtLxjLg
アナログ用の8倍速メディアって、そろそろ生産が終わりそうかい？
370:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/23 23:06:01 w1XpQy1x
>>358
>>367
レスありがとうございます
371:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/24 14:01:03 KY4ogWbw
誘電のブルーレイ、評判悪いの？
DVDはまだ健在？
372:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/24 15:53:25 9mzeR0RA
>>368
誘電だったらどこのドライブでも綺麗に焼けるから心配すんな
計測とかしないんだったらπで良いんじゃない？
373:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/25 21:00:21 cG978f4t
>372
計測というものをしたごとがないので
１から解説してくれたらやってみようかと。
374:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/25 23:16:33 59Z8PvQf
>>371
誘電のBD-RはLTHしかないから、使ってるヒトあんまりいないんじゃない？
375:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/25 23:32:13 703BkmBo
受身でしか学習する気の無い人には計測は無理だからやめとけ
376:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/26 02:50:37 xDsJQz8g
ヨドバシカメラで16倍速50枚スピンドル買ったけど2倍速でしか書き込めないよ
377:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/26 08:41:47 44N1k267
しらんがな
378:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/26 09:33:16 CDtxG0lX
し
しら
379:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/26 09:35:24 CDtxG0lX
ん
がな
380:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/26 18:15:24 rRYqgGMx
>>376
ドライブは対応してんのか？
381:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/26 20:36:40 xDsJQz8g
最大20倍速書込みのドライブと最大4倍速のドライブ
どっちも2倍速書込みしか出来ない
それ以上でやるとエラー出てｱﾎﾞﾝ
質が低下してるのか
382:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 00:19:05 MQ0XhlTh
20倍速と書いてあっても誘電16倍（TYG03）のストラテジ持ってなきゃTYG03には正規の速度で書けない。
最大4倍速のドライブは確実にTYG03のストラテジは持ってないだろうから諦めるとして
20倍速のドライブは最近の奴だろうからTYG03のストラテジ持ってるはず。それで2倍速しか出ないということは
焼きソフトが古くて対応できてないとかじゃないのか？
383:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 00:31:46 lINJvFX0
来週返品するわ
384:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 00:37:15 cfAx4QLK
最大4倍速ドライブは同じ製品でB's Recorder GOLD BASIC7を使ってずっと4倍速で焼けてた
B'sは書き込める最大速度を勝手に調べてくれるみたいなんだけど、今回買ったのは2倍速までとしか認識してくれない
20倍速ドライブは1週間前に買ったやつでソフトはバンドルのcyberlinkのpower2go
12倍速、8倍速とテスト書込みしてもエラーの連続で2倍速でやっとちゃんと焼ける
20倍速ドライブ買ったのは4倍速ドライブが寿命なのかと思ったからなんだけどね
他のR買って検証しないと結論出ないっぽい
ﾊｧ･･･
385:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 02:18:53 Cb9QOpbV
PIO病？
386:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 13:09:03 r5POk0pv
>>385
あっ、俺、半年くらい前にそれにかかった。
どうやって治したんだっけな。
デバイスを一度削除したような…。
387:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 13:21:09 hFVKv9sO
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
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388:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 13:26:47 hFVKv9sO
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
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：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
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2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
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2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
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389:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 13:28:19 hFVKv9sO
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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390:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 13:34:03 hFVKv9sO
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
391:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 13:36:12 DDlze2TY
「PIO病」でググれ。
対処方法を紹介してくれてるサイトに当たるよ。
392:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 13:39:14 hFVKv9sO
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
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9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
393:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 13:44:23 hFVKv9sO
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
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2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
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394:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 13:49:47 hFVKv9sO
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
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：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
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395:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 13:54:54 hFVKv9sO
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
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396:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 14:00:08 hFVKv9sO
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
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397:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 14:05:17 hFVKv9sO
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
/06/25(水) 13:10:17 ID:hh/tLn6V
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398:名無しさん◎書き込み中
08/07/27 14:10:26 hFVKv9sO
2008/07/07(月) 13:43:47 ID:OjV3MtiG
：2008/07/05(土) 00:52:05 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:51:43 ID:sY2vTbpg
2008/07/05(土) 00:46:02 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:45:31 ID:uLOosWa5
：2008/07/05(土) 00:44:10 ID:uLOosWa5
07/05(土) 00:43:26 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/07/05(土) 00:43:03 ID:uLOosWa5
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:52 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:14:25 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:58 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/30(月) 14:13:23 ID:PqJ6NLxV
2008/06/25(水) 13:23:00 ID:hh/tLn6V
：2008/06/25(水) 13:18:18 ID:hh/tLn6V
2008/06/25(水) 13:16:38 ID:hh/tLn6V
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