22/11/07 00:56:34.04 eBaLImuO0.net
Sonnet 12
By William Shakespeare
When I do count the clock that tells the time,
And see the brave day sunk in hideous night;
When I behold the violet past prime,
And sable curls all silver’d o’er with white;
When lofty trees I see barren of leaves
Which erst from heat did canopy the herd,
And summer’s green all girded up in sheaves
Borne on the bier with white and bristly beard,
Then of thy beauty do I question make,
That thou among the wastes of time must go,
Since sweets and beauties do themselves forsake
And die as fast as they see others grow;
And nothing ‘gainst Time’s scythe can make defence
Save breed, to brave him when he takes thee hence.
3:😎三年英太郎🌈 ◆3CZBjOt3.Y (ﾜｯﾁｮｲ 9286-Ssk3)
22/11/07 01:16:18.24 eBaLImuO0.net
>>2
When lofty trees I see barren of leaves
Which erst from heat did canopy the herd
通常の語順に直すと
When I see lofty trees barren of leaves
Which did canopy the herd erst from heat.
*******************************
Then of thy beauty do I question make,
That thou among the wastes of time must go,
通常の語順に直すと
Then I do make question of thy beauty
that thou must go among the wastes of time,
4:😎三年英太郎🌈 ◆3CZBjOt3.Y (ﾜｯﾁｮｲ 9286-Ssk3)
22/11/07 01:24:51.98 eBaLImuO0.net
sable curls 黒々とした巻き髪
erst 昔は
borne 運ばれる
bier 荷車
Time 時の翁
scythe 大鎌
breed 種
hence ここから
5:😉三年英太郎🌈
22/11/07 01:44:51.89 eBaLImuO0.net
>>4
間違えた😓
☓breed 種
save＝except that
子孫を残す以外に（時に立ち向かう術はない）
6:😉三年英太郎🌈
22/11/07 20:40:04.68 eBaLImuO0.net
And nothing ‘gainst Time’s scythe can make defence
Save breed, to brave him when he takes thee hence.
普通の語順に直すと
And nothing can make defence ‘gainst Time’s scythe
Save(= except that) breed, to brave him when he takes thee hence.
7:😉三年英太郎🌈
22/11/07 23:05:54.54 eBaLImuO0.net
Sonnet 2
BY SHAKESPEARE
When forty winters shall besiege thy brow
And dig deep trenches in thy beauty’s field,
Thy youth’s proud livery, so gazed on now,
Will be a tattered weed, of small worth held.
Then being asked where all thy beauty lies—
Where all the treasure of thy lusty days—
To say within thine own deep-sunken eyes
Were an all-eating shame and thriftless praise.
How much more praise deserved thy beauty’s use
If thou couldst answer "This fair child of mine
Shall sum my count and make my old excuse",
Proving his beauty by succession thine.
This were to be new made when thou art old,
And see thy blood warm when thou feel’st it cold.
8:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/08 02:35:19.17 4BAWaI7V0.net
besiege 取り囲む
lively 装い
tattered ボロボロの
all-eating すべて食べてしまう＝消費してしまう
couldst could の二人称単数活用
old excuse 老いの言い訳
art are の二人称単数
feelst feel 〃
9:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/08 02:42:49.02 4BAWaI7V0.net
韻律を守るための文法的破格（poetic license）がいくつかあるので、あんまり神経質に文法を気にして読まない方がいい。
Then (you) being asked "where all thy beauty lies—
Where all the treasure of thy lusty days—"
(you are ) To say "within thine own deep-sunken eyes"
(which) Were an all-eating shame and thriftless praise.
10:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/08 02:52:28.23 4BAWaI7V0.net
このスレのルール
・ 鑑賞の対象は、地域問わず英語の詩歌ならOK
・ 難しい文法や語には注釈を入れること（和訳でも◎）
以上です：）
11:😉三年英太郎🌈
22/11/08 12:33:45.60 4BAWaI7V0.net
Sonnet 5
Those hours, that with gentle work did frame
The lovely gaze where every eye doth dwell,
Will play the tyrants to the very same
And that unfair which fairly doth excel;
For never-resting time leads summer on
To hideous winter, and confounds him there;
Sap checked with frost, and lusty leaves quite gone,
Beauty o'er-snowed and bareness every where:
Then were not summer's distillation left,
A liquid prisoner pent in walls of glass,
Beauty's effect with beauty were bereft,
Nor it, nor no remembrance what it was:
But flowers distilled, though they with winter meet,
Leese but their show; their substance still lives sweet.
12:😉三年英太郎🌈
22/11/08 12:56:34.34 4BAWaI7V0.net
友だちがこんなことを言っていた
For some reason, people who engage in creating ‘poetry’ - whatever age, 16th or 21st century - use an indirect form of sentence structure. Which often looses the patience of the reader, who often gives up trying to understand what the meaning is…😖
詩独特のおかしな文法に悩まされるのは我々だけではない
13:名無しさん＠英語勉強中
22/11/09 22:43:32.02 0zSr4otcr.net
良いスレだ。続け給え。
14:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/10 00:43:52.32 7JLIp24d0.net
5番はマジで難しい・・・
次のような補助記号を使うことにする
《...》 S
[...] V
｛...｝ O or C
15:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/10 00:56:07.79 7JLIp24d0.net
《Those hours》 that with gentle work [did frame]
｛The lovely gaze｝ where every eye doth dwell,
[Will play] ｛the tyrants｝ to the very same
And ｛that｝ [unfair] which fairly doth excel;
hours 季節の女神ホーラーたち、もしくは単に擬人化された時間。
1行目のthatは、たぶんframeの目的語で、2行目の the lovey gazeと同格っぽい
gaze は西脇訳では「眺め」、高松訳では「姿かたち」
3行目、主語は those hours
同じもの（＝the lovely gaze）に対して暴君のようにふるまう
4行目 unfair はおそらく動詞で、that が目的語
that は秀でたものである（which fairly doth excel)
～大意～
時は誰もが見ほれる美しいものを形作るが、やがてそれを壊してしまう
16:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/10 01:01:33.89 7JLIp24d0.net
For never-resting time leads summer on
To hideous winter and confounds him there;
Sap check’d with frost and lusty leaves quite gone,
Beauty o’ersnow’d and bareness every where:
confound 破滅に追いやる
sap 樹液
check せき止める
o’ersnow’d ＝oversnowed
～大意～
とどまることのない時は夏をむごい冬へと追いやり
霜で樹液はとまり、葉は散り、美は雪をかぶり、どこも丸裸
17:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/10 01:18:21.75 7JLIp24d0.net
Then, were not summer’s distillation left,
A liquid prisoner pent in walls of glass,
Beauty’s effect with beauty were bereft,
Nor it, nor no remembrance what it was:
１行目、if 省略の倒置。
distillation 蒸留物（香水）
２行目、summer's distillation と同格
３行目
beauty's effect 美が作り出すもの
bereft bereave（失う）の過去分詞
４行目
it (美) も remembrance what it was （どんなだったかの思い出） も失われる
蒸留やらガラスに閉じ込められた囚人（ホムンクルス）というワードに錬金術を思い起こさせますな
18:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/10 01:27:15.31 7JLIp24d0.net
But 《flowers distilled》, though they with winter meet,
[Leese] but their show; their substance still lives sweet.
leese＝lost
２行目のbut＝only
19:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/10 01:29:01.32 7JLIp24d0.net
Sonnet 6
Then let not winter’s ragged hand deface
In thee thy summer ere thou be distilled.
Make sweet some vial; treasure thou some place
With beauty’s treasure ere it be self-killed.
That use is not forbidden usury
Which happies those that pay the willing loan;
That’s for thyself to breed another thee,
Or ten times happier, be it ten for one.
Ten times thyself were happier than thou art
If ten of thine ten times refigured thee;
Then what could death do if thou shouldst depart,
Leaving thee living in posterity?
Be not self-willed, for thou art much too fair
To be death’s conquest and make worms thine heir.
（内容的に５の続き）
20:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/10 01:44:43.89 7JLIp24d0.net
SVOCが視覚的に分かりやすい表示方法はないものか
21:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/11 14:39:32.96 6UvVgwNR01111.net
Then let not winter’s ragged hand deface
In thee thy summer ere thou be distilled.
deface 損なう
In thee 韻律を合わせるための冗語
er ＝before
thou be distilled before節は事実ではない想念なので叙想法
**************************
Make sweet some vial; treasure thou some place
With beauty’s treasure ere it be self-killed.
vial ガラス瓶
普通の語順だと Make some vial sweet, (thou) treasure some place with beauty's treasure
some place はおチンチンだろう
22:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/11 14:50:07.49 6UvVgwNR01111.net
That use is not forbidden usury
Which happies those that pay the willing loan;
That’s for thyself to breed another thee,
Or ten times happier, be it ten for one.
usury 高利貸し
happies happyが動詞化されてる。品詞転換はシェイク師匠の十八番
be it ten for one ＝ if it be ten for one. 一人から十人できれば
**************************
Ten times thyself were happier than thou art
If ten of thine ten times refigured thee;
Then what could death do if thou shouldst depart,
Leaving thee living in posterity?
depart 死ぬ
refigure ＝duplicate
23:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/11 14:58:02.85 6UvVgwNR01111.net
Be not self-willed, for thou art much too fair
To be death’s conquest and make worms thine heir.
self-willed 頑固
too fair to be death’s conquest too～to
make worms ウジがわく
heir おチンチンのことだろう
**************************
5&6はエッチな詩である。distillation は精水のメタファーであろう。
24:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/11 15:11:05.67 6UvVgwNR01111.net
>>21
違ったわ。some place はおマンマンやね
treasure thou some place(おマンマン) with beauty’s treasure(おチンチン)
25:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/11 15:32:48.73 6UvVgwNR01111.net
Sonnet 15
When I consider every thing that grows
Holds in perfection but a little moment,
That this huge stage presenteth nought but shows
Whereon the stars in secret influence comment;
When I perceive that men as plants increase,
Cheer’d and check’d even by the self-same sky,
Vaunt in their youthful sap, at height decrease,
And wear their brave state out of memory;
Then the conceit of this inconstant stay
Sets you most rich in youth before my sight,
Where wasteful Time debateth with Decay,
To change your day of youth to sullied night;
And all in war with Time for love of you,
As he takes from you, I engraft you new.
26:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/12 21:04:53.34 lQq2t4m60.net
When I consider (that) every thing that grows
Holds in perfection but a little moment,
***************************************
That this huge stage presenteth nought but shows (plays)
Whereon the stars in secret influence comment;
huge stage この世
cf, All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players
the stars(S) in secret influence(O) comment(V)
27:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/12 21:17:42.30 lQq2t4m60.net
When I perceive that men as plants increase,
Cheer’d and check’d even by the self-same sky,
Vaunt in their youthful sap, at (the) height (they) decrease,
And wear their brave state out of memory;
check 叱る
by self-same sky 同じ一つの天から
Vaunt in ～を自慢する
sap 体液/血液
decrease 衰える
wear（vt） ～を衰えさせる
★大意
人は植物のように成長し、天から励まされたり叱られたりして
若い血を自慢するけど、絶頂期で衰え、勇ましき時の記憶も消えていく
とわたしが思うとき
28:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/12 21:38:48.59 lQq2t4m60.net
>>27
地上のものは天（星）からパワーを得て存在しているとゆー、ルネサンス期の考えがあって、
またその星を観客にたとえて、それで存在する役者というメタファーもあるらしい。
この時代の芸術はアレゴリーだらけなので難しい・・・
29:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/12 21:44:05.56 lQq2t4m60.net
Then the conceit of this inconstant stay
Sets you most rich in youth before my sight,
Where wasteful Time debateth with Decay,
To change your day of youth to sullied night;
conceit 思いつき
inconstant stay 無常
sully 傷つける
*********************************:
And all in war with Time for love of you,
As he takes (youth) from you, I engraft you new.
engraft 接ぎ木する。ソネット18番と関係するかも
文法的にかなり足りない・・・
時と戦ってて、時がyouの若さを奪うときには、詩人は新たに詩の力で彼に接ぎ木する、とゆーことらしい
30:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/12 21:44:57.82 lQq2t4m60.net
こーゆーのはネイティブにさえ難しいはず。>>12参照。
31:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/12 21:47:05.93 lQq2t4m60.net
sonnet 16 （15の続き）
But wherefore do not you a mightier way
Make war upon this bloody tyrant, Time?
And fortify your self in your decay
With means more blessed than my barren rhyme?
Now stand you on the top of happy hours,
And many maiden gardens, yet unset,
With virtuous wish would bear you living flowers,
Much liker than your painted counterfeit:
So should the lines of life that life repair,
Which this, Time's pencil, or my pupil pen,
Neither in inward worth nor outward fair,
Can make you live your self in eyes of men.
To give away yourself, keeps yourself still,
And you must live, drawn by your own sweet skill.
32:名無しさん＠英語勉強中
22/11/12 21:51:08.17 vYh6E+DQr.net
なんか参考にしてる文献あるんです？
33:😎三年英太郎🌈
22/11/12 22:01:06.44 lQq2t4m60.net
西脇順三郎訳と高松雄一訳見てます
高松訳はそこそこ注釈ついてます
34:名無しさん＠英語勉強中
22/11/12 22:02:26.02 vYh6E+DQr.net
高松訳は手許にないですが、なるほど、ありがとうございます。
35:名無しさん＠英語勉強中
22/11/18 00:31:38.53 DVrYMsmv0.net
イキリ散らしても単語テストからは逃げちゃうホモ太郎がなんか言ってて草