14/09/06 03:52:33.11 8CHGIQZE0
let's talkについて冷静だなどという意見が出てるけど
昨日let's talkについて気になることがあると書いた>>303なんだが
GS見る限り相変わらず羽生叩き続けてるっぽいし冷静とは言い難いと思う
自分がこいつlet's talkじゃね？と思った垢があったんだが
今日全く別の人がGSでそれ指摘しててやっぱそう思ったの自分だけじゃなかったんだと思った
やっぱり同一人物じゃないかという確信がもてたのでまとめたの投下してみる
ちょっと長いけどすみません
GSでLet's talkの新垢と思われるもの2つ見つけてmich2ってのとAlainってのなんだけど
もちろん確実ではないけど色々と共通する点が多いので一応参考までに書いておく
まずそう思った根拠となるLet's talkとの共通点
-高橋ファン(高橋スレに頻繁にレス)
-羽生アンチ(好意的と思わせるレスを個スレで申し訳程度しつつ総合スレではsageる)
-高橋人気を真央と並べたがる
-ロシア選手と日本選手に詳しい
-日本在住でショー観戦に行く
-聖子非難に積極的
あとなぜこの二人が同一人物と思ったか
-垢作成時期が一緒(2014年4月)
-頻繁にレスしてるスレッドが一緒(高橋個スレ、羽生インタ記事スレ、JOスレ、OSMorWGMスレ、etc)
-どのスレでも主張してる内容が全く一緒
-そのくせ互いがレスをやり取りすることがない
それっぽいレスはいっぱいあるけど全部載せるとキリがないので
上の根拠に沿ってわかりやすいレスだけ載せておく
※レスが非常に長いものもあるのでレス全体ではなく一部抜粋しているものも多数あります
違うレスからの引用のものは「・」で区切ってます
569:名無しさん＠ｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰ！
14/09/06 03:56:13.46 8CHGIQZE0
高橋スレの萌えレス
mich2
・Daisuke is so cute and happy in his new EX. Its jazz. . . ;)
・Meh. Vogue is awful. Daisuke has better fashion sense than Vogue. ;)
Alain
・I expected to see him in swinwear when I read "on the beach" ;)
・I am absolutely sure there is a video somewhere of a very young teenish Dai training with a chair near the pool.
He is topless there. I saw it, just can't find the link now. Anyone? Should go to the museum too.
高橋と真央を並べたがる
mich2
・I think they both share the same thing- being an icon. which is not easy. Maybe that is why they understand each other so well.
・Lol. Again Mao and Dai have to work hard.
JOスレの羽生欠場に関する流れで
いかに高橋と真央はそれぞれ一人でたまアリを満員にできたか、
そして羽生がJOに出ないのはたまアリに空席が出るのを見るのが怖いからだ、という主張
mich2
・He could simply withdraw from FT and skate in front of his home audience like Mao and Dai did in the past, especially now when he is an OC.
・Saitama arena is huge like soccer stadium. Mao and Dai either both or alone could sell it in the past. Yuzuru never had a chance.
Maybe he doesnt want to take this responsibility. Its not good for his image and JSF to see empty seats when the local OC is on the ice.
Otherwise his absence this year in the current situation really makes no sense.
・I understand that its more relaxing for him to debute a new season in front of a small FT than to take responsibility for the ticket sale in the stadium-size Saitama.
And what do you mean by resume next year? Some miracle will happen and the mega star of Mao and Dai level will appear out of nowhere?
570:名無しさん＠ｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰ！
14/09/06 03:57:55.93 8CHGIQZE0
「羽生は高橋欠場分の空席を埋めることはできるだろうが、真央の分を埋めるのは難しいだろう」というレスに対して
高橋一人でも真央並みにチケは売れるが、羽生が高橋並みにチケ売れるようになることはないと反論
mich2
・Mao wasnt in all JO events, was she? Daisuke was doing well in selling tickets without Mao. WTT in 2012 was a successful even too.
If Hanyu is now the same level as Takahashi as you say, how could he possibly be refusing to skate in JO because of fear to face the embarrassment as a ticket sale failure.
Alain
・I am sure if hypothetically speaking Asada didn't compete in JO-2014 but Dai did, there wouldn't be any risk aversion.
「羽生は高橋のいない埼玉ワールドを満員にできたし高橋の代わりになる」というレスに対して
「埼玉ワールドのチケは高橋欠場発表後半額位で投げ売りされ
チケを売れなかった多くの高橋オタが見に来ていた」と主張
また「浅田がいなければ今の高橋人気はなかっただろう」というレスに対し
「それと同じように高橋がいなければ今の羽生の地位はなかっただろう」と主張
Alain
・Wasn't it in the news that a good deal of WC-2014 showed up on the secondary market when it was annonuced that Takahashi would't compete?
Some of them were sold out for half-price or less. So there is a difference if Hanyu fanbase was not in a hurry to buy those tickets.
Eventually many of those who couldn't sell still attened the WC I quess. The arena looked fine that time.
Ladies used to be more popular in Japan. Nowdays it's probably not much.
You can say the same thing- without Takahashi there wouldn't be Hanyu status. Silly to deny that.
It's rather disappointing for his home fans that he doesn't want to keep it at the certain level, as well as sport in general in Japan.
571:名無しさん＠ｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰ！
14/09/06 03:59:25.86 8CHGIQZE0
「羽生ファンにチケを売りたがらない高橋ファンがいた事実もある」という指摘に対し
「そんな話は聞いたこともない」と反論
mich2
・where do your ideas come from? When you want to resell or buy tickets, you go to the special websites.
They want to know your credit card number. The deal is done. Nobody asks whose fan you are.
Its good that you want to support your favorite skater. Its lame that you do it by libelling other fans.
Alain
・I am not. I simply can't mention something that I've never heard of.
高橋人気でフレンズが3回立ち見まで人数制限なくチケ売るという前代未聞の状態だったとアピール
ちなみにしー様という日本人しか知らないような呼び方を使っている
mich2
・Btw, technically FrOI shows were never sold out.
Hundreds of people with no tickets didnt want to leave and organizers decided to sell 'tickets to stand' with no seat in unlimited number, for the 3 floor too! The never did it before.
Thank you, Shi-sama. And huge thank you to Daisuke!
572:名無しさん＠ｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰ！
14/09/06 04:02:18.79 8CHGIQZE0
以下は羽生アンチの内容
羽生のインタを紹介したスレに張り付いて
とにかく羽生の点はおかしい、PCS出過ぎ、転けることに関してなんとも思ってないetc…とまくし立てる
その際羽生叩きにPさんを使いつつ同時にPさんもsageたり
埼玉ワールドの町田を利用して羽生を勝たせるため適正なジャッジがされなかったなどと主張
mich2
・The season will be about Hanyu and Javi, who of them will fall else. Any of some skaters can get a bronze.
・Lol. Didnt he fall on that right strategy 4s and then again to become the first Olympic champion with two falls? Thats more embarrasing for ISU than Chan in London.
・They both used the same policy: fall is not that punishable, they knew they could fall and get high score.
Theres no difference between those two. Patrick at least deserved high score in SS and TR. Where Hanyus 9s come from is beyond me.
I dont blame the rules. Some skaters can skate clean difficult programs.
Alain
・It's not just that POTO is oversued. It's also that Yuzu is basically skating the same program/character for the 3rd season.
・The system works well for these tricks. You don't really need to skate well and clean. You need to rotate.
All the rest numbers will do. Sport is less enjoyable to watch though. At least for me.
・Not big enough not to be covered by clean Chan's PCS. The gap between them in PCS should be closer to 10 points if judged fairly.
・4S was introduced later by Orser in Hanyu's LPs together with the splatfest.
・Apparently it's Good when Hanyu gets over 90 PCS wity falls. It's Evil when it comes to Chan. In fact they are both pets of the system.
・Hanyu's TES was 4th in SP Worlds-2014. Yet he got the highest PCS. Like Patrick Chan in old times. No difference between those two.
573:名無しさん＠ｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰ！
14/09/06 04:03:21.32 8CHGIQZE0
>>572続き
・He chose 4S because it was his only option. His 4Tcombo is less reliable. It has nothing to with Chan and his PCS. It's Hanyu problem. His falls are his problem too.
What amuses me is how Hanyu fans justify his favoritism with favoritisim of other skaters (Chan) in the past.
That favoritism was wrong but in case of Hanyu it became right. On the other hand why hypocrisy should amuse anyone.
・Plushy by the age of 31 has less falls than Hanyu or Chan by now. He surely didn't win Olympics with two falls.
・CoP doesn't work the way you say- who won SP or LP. With being 2nd in LP Tatsuki would be the WC-2014 if Hanyu PCS had been judged fairly in SP.
・The controversial thing is when a skater gets 7+ PCS and 3 weeks later 9+.
PCS is not TES when you can pop jumps and lose 10-20 points easily. PCS requires years of mastery.
Patrick always had high PCS. He wasn't gifted with the sudden cushion to lose a -20 points PCS gap over the rival.
574:名無しさん＠ｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰ！
14/09/06 04:05:23.63 8CHGIQZE0
「羽生はPCSではなくTESで勝つのでどの勝利も勝利に値するものだ」というレスに対して
「2012全日本の時札幌会場にいたけどそこにいた全員にとってあの勝利は勝利に値しないものだった」と主張
mich2
・Lol. I was in Sapporo in 2012 at Japanese Nationals. For everyone there he got the medal he didnt deserve. :)
そしてここから悪質デーオタの話題へ…
札幌が高橋ファンで埋め尽くされた会場であったこと、一部羽生に心ない反応を見せた高橋オタがいて記事にもなったことを指摘され
必死で会場でそんなものはなかった、ネットで捏造が拡散されているだけと主張
mich2
・I never saw any fan wars in arena. Maybe internet people want to have it, so they created the myth.
National champions often get favoritism in international events. No?
・Internet people created the myth to have fan. You used the word 'war' here, not Dai-chan fan.
I never saw any fan wars in arena. You net people have fan.
Hanyu is a National champion like Patrick. They are equal in this.
575:名無しさん＠ｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰ！
14/09/06 04:09:45.54 8CHGIQZE0
そしてこれが最新のレスだが極めつけに酷いので訳つけとく
Alain
・I too heard some journalist saying Hanyu was booed. I checked youtube and heard nothing. Literally nothing.
It's trolling to say there were no Hanyu fans in Sapporo.
He was a Wolrd Championship bronze medalist and an NHK trophy winner. Of course he had fans there.
They were relativy quiet because they were embarrassed. That is what normal people do when they see injustice took place.
The Saitama audience was super lovely to all skaters. It was full of Daisuke fans too.
They couldn't know he would withdraw, they bought tickets.
I am not buying a 'fan war' argument. It comes from netizens who are not based in Japan. And from one side only.
The war requires two. More like the Daisuke fanbase is being used by some Yuzuru internet fans to promote their skater.
Patrick was more repectful when he had to deal with booing in Nice.
Do not remember the wording but it was something about the audience being French. It came out as half-joke not strictly PC.
But in that situation it was a graceful move not to bring another skater's name or his fans.
Chan netizens when they want to attack someone say 'anti-Chan' or 'Chan hater.'
They don't use other skaters' names to promote Chan.
576:名無しさん＠ｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰ！
14/09/06 04:10:41.68 8CHGIQZE0
>>575
(訳)
私も何人かの記者が羽生がブーイングされたと言ったのを聞いた。なのでYoutubeでチェックしたけど何も聞こえなかった。文字通り、何も。
札幌に羽生ファンがいなかったというのは馬鹿げている。彼はワールド銅メダリストでN杯優勝者だった。もちろん羽生ファンはいただろう。
彼らは恥ずかしかったから黙っていたのだ。それが不正を目にした時に普通の人間のする反応だ。
埼玉の観客は全てのスケーターに優しかった。その会場もダイスケファンで満たされていた。
彼らは高橋の欠場を知ることはできなかったし、チケットを買ったのだ。
私はファン同士の争いの議論に乗らない。それは日本にいないネット民から来ている。そして一方的にのみ。
その争いの狙いは二つ。ダイスケファンがユヅルのネット上のファンによって彼の宣伝のために利用されている。
パトリックは彼がニースでブーイングに耐えなければならなかった時もっと礼儀があった。
言い回しは覚えていないが観客がフランス人だからどうのと言っていた。それは半分ジョークで(この先ちょっと意味がわからん)
しかしその状況で他のスケーターやそのファンのことを持ち出さなかったのは立派だった。
チャンのネット上のファンは他方を攻撃したい時「アンチチャン」もしくは「チャンヘイター」と言う。
彼らはチャンを宣伝するため他のスケーターの名前を使わない。
577:名無しさん＠ｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰ！
14/09/06 04:13:08.42 8CHGIQZE0
で、今向こうでもmich2とAlainがLet's talkの新垢じゃないかって指摘が入った
何て返すか現在オチ続行中
578:名無しさん＠ｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰｺﾞｰ！
14/09/06 04:16:18.18 zkfPusNy0
目眩がするな…